Billions With Zero Knowledge - Austin Hill, Entrepreneur & Angel Investor

Silicon Valley loves risk taking and failure. Canadian investors are risk adverse and scared of funding real innovation.

-Many Canadian Entrepreneurs

This something I hear from many entrepreneurs who lament the challenges of raising capital in Canada.   It’s a gross over simplification, but a catchy idea when people are having a hard time raising funds.

It’s true that Valley based venture capital firms not only accept that failure happens, they celebrate it by recycling the best parts of the team, idea and lessons learned for a new project.

In Canada we don’t hear enough about our failures and the people who go on to find success with new initiatives.

I was thinking about these cultural differences when I read this post by Wade Roush “When Startups Fail” where he interviews entrepreneur Christopher Herot about Zingdom’s shutdown. 

Part of the reason high-tech entrepreneurs are attracted to Silicon Valley is the perception that it’s a place where risk-taking is encouraged. West Coast venture capital firms not only excuse failure, so this perception goes, but celebrate it: if a high-tech entrepreneur doesn’t have a couple of tanked companies on his resume, he probably wasn’t being innovative enough. By contrast, the perception about investors in New England is that they penalize failure, which therefore becomes a taboo subject.

Both perceptions are probably exaggerations. But whereas West Coast companies come and go like the butterflies in Santa Cruz, it’s still unusual to hear any of the details when an East Coast startup closes down. That’s why a blog post last week by Christopher Herot has been attracting so much attention.

I met Christopher at TED this year and read his post about shutting down Zingdom with a lot appreciation for his honesty in posting the details of shutting down his company.  I’ve had to shut down my share of companies and have had many failures that have contributed to my successes.

If you swap out New England & East Coast with Canada you have the same perception that investors penalize failure and attach a negative stigma to projects and teams involved in them, which therefore becomes a topic not often talked about.   

So it is in that vein that I ask Montreal local entrepreneur, Martin Dufort to answer some questions about his experiences with Kakiloc (a location based social networking web experiment that shut down in November, 2007).  I met Martin in the Barcamp community in 2006 and got to see the hard work that he and his partner Alain put into building Kakiloc.

They were innovating on a number of fronts and I enjoyed introducing them to various investors where they often impressed people, but ultimately were not able to secure funding.  (If you hadn’t seen their demo where you could watch them drive up to your meeting via the web - you missed something very cool).

I really would like to congratulate Alain & Martin for their failure. I can’t wait to see which eventual success they will be able to attribute this failure too. Their willingness to admit a failure, discuss what they learned and move on to new adventures is what true entrepreneurs do and they deserve a lot of credit for doing just that.

First I would like to thank you Austin for giving me this opportunity to tell the Kakiloc story. I’ve learned a lot from this endeavour and reflecting on it and the associated failures and the shutdown could be valuable for anyone trying to startup a business and being faced with the same challenges.

1) Tell me a bit about when you & Alain started Kakiloc and it’s original vision?

The inception and the ideas for Kakiloc were derived from an open source project I created in June 2005: Rufopode. This project still available on RubyForge, but no longer maintained, was a small library enabling the extraction of GPS receiver data in order to properly plot them in Google Earth. My goal was to view and visually compare multiple training sessions and provide insight into my training schedule. The ultimate goal was to provide a realtime view of other athletes riding the same course and compare performance accomplishments.

I quickly recognized this was targeting techno-savvy people and the audience size was very small. I then brainstorm on how to apply this to a broader audience: Locate friends and family members using GPS technology while on the move with your cell phone. After explaining the concept to Alain, Kakiloc was born and we started coding the concept.

2) How far along did you guys get in your development and what were some of the main challenges?

We started prototyping the concept in November 2005 at the same time that the Google Maps API was picking up steam. Within a week, we had a rough prototype using Ruby on Rails for the Web site and Python on the Nokia S60 mobile platform. We were able to retrieve the GPS coordinate from the phone and map it on Google Maps so we could follow our location in real-time. It was quite astonishing at first. We knew we had something interesting with a lot of potential so we went forward with the implementation without thinking about the underlying business model. At that time this was mostly another hobby project.

From there, we showed it to people and they were really enthusiastic. Our first public demo was at the OGRE meeting [http://location-based.blogspot.com/2007/08/looking-for-windows-mobile-beta-testers.html] and an iPhone version [http://montrealtechwatch.com/2007/03/31/the-future-is-mashups-and-mobile-services/]. Also it’s much harder to raise money in Canada if you are ill-prepared on the financial side or if you business plan is not rocket solid. The large number of VC funds in the US and especially in the Valley, allows you be much more successful and gather interest at a much earlier stage even if you are ill-prepared. We are still missing that initial commitment spark here to ensure very early-stage companies can continue to innovate and move forward within the Canadian ecosystem.

Companies like Loopt (with $12M in funding), Plazes ($2M Euros), and others are also exploiting the location-based aspect. However they started with a very focused goal and built on it. Plazes even tailored down their mobile functionality to respond to user’s criticism about being too complex. However, the market is still open and we are seeing more of these companies shifting their business model: Loopt is now providng Location-Based Ads (LBA) in collaboration with CBS. You have to be agile and follow the market wave. If you have a clear understanding of your roadmap and your capability, that’s easy to do. We did not have that 20/20 vision and that’s why the uptake on our service was pretty low.

6) One of the most important things I see entrepreneurs not knowing, is when to stop and move onto other things.  What went into your decision to shut down the Kakiloc experiment ?

We were maintaining stats about registration versus usage level. We had a very low usage rate. People registered, specified their initial location and then expected something return. For most of them, there was no reaction because none of their friends were in close proximity. The fundamental action-reaction paradigm was broken. We were unable to achieve a sustainable user base. At that point, we needed to take a huge decision. Either we re-launched the site to be more focused and easier to use or we shifted our business model to explore a specific vertical (a business model shift). Still with no funding available and nothing in the medium-term pipeline, if was very difficult to do either. We discussed the future roadmap, the re-shift, we weighted the pros and cons, we read the seminal book by Seth Godin “The Dip”.

After a number of days of insightful introspection and discussions, my partner Alain and I decided to split. We made an agreement that I could continue to use and operate the Kakiloc intellectual properties. This was a very friendly split. However, the service quietly died as a consequence. It is impossible for a single person to handle everything. That’s the reason why, starting a company solo is 95% of the time a big no-no. You have no one to bounce ideas to, discuss issues, promote and demote stuff. Kakiloc was shutdown on November 6th, 3 days after the death of my mother. The official announcement was actually sent on November 29th to all our contacts [http://location-based.blogspot.com]

The Kakiloc technology is still alive and I’m looking at the right fit for it. I’m also evaluating other options in the real-estate business where it could be applicable. Lately, interesting things are slowly starting to surface and I should be able to potentially announce something interesting very soon.

I’ll keep you posted. Thanks for the opportunity Austin.

Happy location reporting - Martin

Thanks Martin for participating in this interview. I’m looking forward to your next adventure as an entrepreneur.

Ben Yoskovitz wrote a post about celebrating failures that also mentions Kakiloc.

On Tue 8 Apr 2008. [7] Comments

I have been on vacation for a week in Mexico with my girlfriend Kelly and am posting this using a small internet cafe, and a slow dial-up connection.

Fact is I’m loving the time away from the office, for no other reason then I use my vacations as reading weeks and I’ve been reading two books at day and am full of insights. (And a little color for my Casper-like Canadian winter skin suit I’ve been wearing).

Before I left Montreal, I did an interview with Kristina Tomaz-Young from Smart Initiatives where she wrote the following,

You would think that this would be enough and he would be soaking in the rays in Tahiti with his feet up. But nope, not Austin! Retirement is far away. He’s relentlessly on the go, advising and investing in start-ups and building yet another game-changing company.

The full interview is available here

March and April were really busy but great months for Akoha as we raised some more angel money and rounded out most of our core development team with the hiring of 5 additional people.

During the back to back days of work that is part of the heavy lifting required while creating companies it’s hard often for me to relax. I’m in my groove working longs days and I actually have to force myself to take a break sometimes. Thankfully my partner Kelly knows a lot of the warning signs when I’ve been pushing too much and usually steps in, makes plans for my vacation and tells me when I’m leaving the office and where we are going.

Only once I’ve left the office that I realize how much I needed to take a small break.

So I’ll be back next week, catching up on email and starting on some blogging again (which became sparse when we were trying to hire 5 people due to the incredible amount of time hiring good people takes).

In the meantime, here is a great quote that I started my reading week with from Ester Buchholz.

Life’s creative solutions require alone time. Solitude is required for the unconscious to process and unravel problems.

Others inspire us, information feeds us, practice improves our performance, but we need quiet time to figure things out, to emerge with new discoveries, to unearth original answers.

On Fri 27 Apr 2007. [4] Comments

One of the demo’s at TED 2007 that really impressed everyone was from Adam Shepard and Microsoft Research.  I wrote about the Seadragon and Microsoft Virtual Earth demo from the conference, but I also got to sit down with Adam during the conference and get a demo on film.

This is impressive stuff that is visually stunning.  I give Microsoft a lot of grief over their marketing, but it is good to see them showing some of the great research and technology development occurring there.

Jay Goldman at Radiant Core did a great series of posts about his Microsoft User Experience Roundtable recently which are worth a read. 

Robert Scoble just posted a video of some of the tours he did at Microsoft Research recently. Microsoft does have a lot of research going on, but they have not proven themselves able to commercialize or bring this technology to market.

On Tue 20 Mar 2007. [2] Comments

I’ve had the pleasure to work closely with my friend Craig Silverman for more than five years starting while he was part of the media relations team at Zero-Knowledge Systems and then when we worked together on various projects since then.

As part of my continuing series of interviews with members of the Canadian technology scene it was my chance to turn the microphone towards Craig Silverman to talk about his blog Regret the Error and the various projects he has going on.

So, Mr. Silverman after years of you doing interviews for & with me, this
is a new one. Tell me about how Regret The Error got started, which has become quite the success.

Yes, this is a bit of a switch. My, how the tables have turned, Mr. Hill. The hunter has becomes the hunted. Let’s hope my performance is up to par.

I launched Regret the Error in October 2004, but I came up with the idea several months before and just let it sit for a while. The concept was to create a site that presented the funniest, most egregious and shocking media errors and corrections, and also use this compelling content as a means to get people – journalists and the public – interested in the issue of media accuracy. I had been reading a lot of blogs at the time and wanted to come up with something media-related that might find an audience. To my surprise, the site attracted about 10,000 visitors its first day. That told me I was going to be doing this for a while.

How has the response been from editors and the newspaper industry?

I’m proud to say the response from the journalism community has been overwhelmingly positive. This is good for two reasons.

1. Hopefully it means I’m making a meaningful contribution to discussion and research into the area of media errors and accuracy.
2. And hopefully it suggests that journalists care about these issues and are interested in working on them.

I suppose the counterpoint could be that I’m not being provocative enough to incur dissention, but my goal is to have a positive overall effect on journalism and that means I‘m more interested in having a meaningful, professional discussion as opposed to screaming bloody murder about the press’ problems with accuracy. And, yes, there are problems.

As a side note, there are many editors and working journalists sending in errors and corrections from their own publications. So they seem to have no problem bringing their own missteps to light. I think that’s healthy.

Any thoughts on the changes occurring to the news media industry right now?

Depending on whom you speak with, this is a time when good journalists are losing their jobs or leaving the industry in droves and the mainstream media as we know it is slowing sinking like a dinosaur stuck in a tar pit. Or, it’s a revolutionary time in the history of the press, a time when new technologies are forcing old models and organizations to change and embrace new ways of delivering the news. This means being (get ready for the buzz words) “platform agnostic” – delivering news any and every way people want it. This requires new levels of transparency about the newsgathering process, and involving people other than journalists in the collection and dissemination of information.

I’m generalizing here with the two schools of thought, but as much as I lament the loss of jobs and believe this can only lower the quality of journalism, I look at the changes taking place as part of a remarkable opportunity for both the press and the media-savvy person at large. Journalists used to have a kind of monopoly on the news. Every morning a newspaper would hit your doorstep and tell you what you were supposed to know. Radio would fill you in during the day, and TV would wrap it all up in a nice package at night. Then you could turn to a magazine or book for a more focused or long-term view on the news. It was a nice little ecosystem of information, and the average person largely picked from a menu of options determined by the media itself. It made media companies rich as hell and it made journalists, who are notoriously underpaid, feel a sense of power and responsibility.

Now, for example, anyone can start a blog and report their own news, be it about what their cat did that day, or what they see going on in their community (work, geography, profession, family etc.) In the words of Dan Gillmor, anyone can “commit acts of journalism.” That’s remarkable. It’s also game-changing.

The old model is what one newspaper editor in the US called “fortress journalism.” The media opened the gates and provided the plebes with what the media determined important and then closed up until the next time *they* were scheduled to bring down the word of God. Rarely did the fortress open its gates and let the people in to see how this mysterious news oracle operated, or enable people to make a meaningful contribution. (Think of how little space was devoted to letters to the editor, and how hard it was for the average person to get a submission printed on the op-ed pages.)

Now it’s the people who dictate how, when and where they want their information. The explosion of options for receiving — and producing — news has changed the old dynamic and journalists and media companies are working to adapt. It’s a relatively messy process right now. Large organizations are often by their nature slow to adapt to change and so we have a blossoming of independent news providers, mostly online, doing some remarkably innovative things.

Arthur Sulzberger, Jr., the publisher of The New York Times recently set tongues wagging when he said, “I really don’t know whether we’ll be printing the Times in five years, and you know what? I don’t care, either.” Obviously, he could have phrased that a bit better. “I don’t care” suggests a lack of engagement that brought out the knives in the press, but I think his statement is a positive one. (He subsequently clarified his statement; see here: http://themediamob.observer.com/2007/02/times-sulzberger-newspaper-will-be-around-for-a-long-time.html )

Newspapers as organized providers of information, commentary, analysis and entertainment will continue. But already a newspaper is much more than the paper product: it is a website with podcasts and video, and often also an electronic version. I don’t see the daily paper going away in the very short term, but there’s no question that newspaper newsrooms are thinking of themselves less as being linked to a paper product and more as news providers for a variety of mediums. If the people want their news online, a newspaper damn well better give it to them. And if they want video and audio and archives and chats with journalists etc., these operations know they don’t have much of a choice. People can and will go elsewhere for their news — and they can by and large get it for free. That old fortress is fast crumbling and the villagers have breached the walls.

Maybe that sounds negative, but I think there are remarkable opportunities for news innovation and the barriers to entry are lower than ever before. This is a threat to the established media companies, but they are also extremely well positioned. They have the staff (if they’d just stop cutting and look more to reassigning and retraining…), the resources etc. They also have one thing that brings us back to Regret the Error: credibility. In this onslaught of information and news, people want to find a source that they can trust. It’s an inherent human trait. Trust is a factor in so many of our daily decisions, and it is the cornerstone of the press. If large media organizations can rededicate themselves to delivering demonstrably more accurate, reliable and trustworthy reporting, they can rise above the noise and reaffirm their place at the top of the news food chain. One of the key ways to do this is to (in my best Ronald Reagan voice) tear down those fortress walls. Trust today requires transparency and collaboration. Let the villagers in.

For a really interesting take on this shift, I recommend reading this post from an executive at IDG. It’s really on point:

http://colincrawford.typepad.com/idg/2007/02/the_transformat.html

(Hat tip to the remarkable Jeff Jarvis for spotting it.)

Tell me about your role as Director of Verification for NewAssignment.Net?

Ah, a perfect segue. NewAssignment.Net is a non-profit project started by Jay Rosen, a journalism professor at NYU. The goal is to see how professional journalists and the public at large can collaborate together to research, report, write and edit stories. The idea is to experiment with “open source reporting” and see if we can develop the tools, process and standards that could be used by other media organizations and groups. The focus is on investigative reporting.

My role is to try and develop the fact checking portion of the project. How do we enable groups of people to come together and verify the research and reporting done by the NewAssignment reporters? What tools and systems can we build to meet the highest possible standard of accuracy in what we do? Those are the questions we’re grappling with, and it’s going to take time to answer them. As of now, the team just launched the new site where this “crowdsourced” reporting can take place, and within that site there will soon be a section devoted to networked fact checking. Check it out and please sign up to contribute:

http://zero.newassignment.net

Hopefully, we can develop the technology, policies and practices that can be used by other groups and media organizations to incorporate the so-called “wisdom of crowds” into their work. Reuters has already stepped up with some funding because they recognize the opportunities for this kind of work. And because we’re non-profit, we can act as an incubator and experimental place to advance this concept.

You can read more about my role here:

http://www.newassignment.net/blog/craigsilverman/nov2006/06/can_there_be_inn

More about crowdsourcing here:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.06/crowds.html

And:

http://crowdsourcing.typepad.com

You also just got your first book deal, congratulations. What can you tell me about the book?
Thanks. Not to brag, but I’m actually under contract for two books right now. The first is a book based on my work at Regret the Error. It will be a definitive look at media errors and accuracy going back to the time when news was exchanged by word of mouth through the invention of newspapers and broadcast media and into today. I look at how the press evolved to make accuracy a cornerstone of its operations, and how studies over the last 70 years show that we are, unfortunately, not walking the talk. The book will feature tales of some of the most egregious and hilarious media errors of history and recent times, and offer suggestions for making the press more accurate. Of course, it will also include hundreds of the best corrections from the website. It will be released in December. Penguin is publishing it in Canada, and Union Square Press (a division of Sterling) is publishing it in the US, UK and Australia.

The second book is a project I’m co-writing. I’m working with the infamous Mafiaboy. He’s the guy who, as a teenager, unleashed devastating denial of service attacks against web giants like Yahoo!, eBay, E*TRADE etc. back in 2000. The FBI and RCMP hunted him down and arrested him a few months later. He’s now grown up and is ready to tell his story. (He has never uttered a word to the press.) We are also going to write about the realities of online security and offer people and businesses concrete advice about how to protect themselves. His goal now is to help educate people about online security. That book will be published in Fall 2008. Penguin owns the world rights to that one.

I never would have guessed it would come together like this, but if I hadn’t spent three years at Zero-Knowledge I probably wouldn’t be able to write this book with him. It goes to show that you never know how certain experiences are going to benefit you down the road.

What do you find exciting about what’s occurring in Montreal in terms of the technology & social media scene?

Well, I was very impressed by some of what I saw at BarCamp Montreal. I think we’ve got a lot of sleeper hits gestating in Montreal and we’re edging our way towards a bit of a breakout. What I like most is the sense of community that seems to exist. People working in these areas are always open to collaborate, meet and talk. There is competition but also a sense that a rising tide can lift all boats. I continue to be impressed by what Hugh McGuire has done with LibriVox (so much that I wrote about the project for The New York Times and Montreal Gazette; read the articles at http://www.craigsilverman.ca ), and even though he talked a bit of smack about the lethargy of Montrealers, Julien Smith is a podcast master. Though I can drink him under the table and proved it a few weeks back. Then there’s Mitch Joel who, I swear to God, knows everyone. I recently had trouble finding a source for an article I was writing, so I sent Mitch an IM and he gave me the perfect contact in about a minute flat.

I’m also wondering exactly what the hell this Project Ojibwe (now Akoha) thing is all about, Austin? You used to not be able to keep anything a secret and all of a sudden you’re a freaking vault. It scares me, though as a former member of your communications department at Zero-Knowledge, I have to say I’m also extremely proud. As a final note, I think it’s interesting and promising that Google is coming to town. It shows once again that we have a huge amount of talent here. Let the recruiting battles begin.

For a few possible readers of the blog who might want me to ask, have you heard from Spanky Bodega and do you know if he has any words to pass on to his fans?
Spanky actually sent me a letter recently. He is in Costa Rica. It said:

“Craig,

The raven flies at night and the dog howls in the day. Spanky here. Sun is good, beer is better. My novel is coming along well but the police have confiscated chapter two due to its potential to ‘incite violence and upset the masses.’ Will bribe them with Baton Rouge ribs to get it back. Please send 15 racks of Baton Rouge ribs. (Ten for me, five for them. Extra sauce all around.)

And tell everyone to stop worrying; that rash cleared up fine.

Spanky B.”

On Mon 19 Mar 2007. [6] Comments

As part of my continuing series of interviews showcasing the Canadian tech scene I asked my friend Russell Samuels, the founder of Ventis Media to share a bit about his story in building a succesfull software company as a stay at home dad

Russell worked with me at Zero-Knowledge Systems, and then again at Synomos (a failed spin out of Zero-Knowledge Systems). We went through a lot together at ZKS and he has since moved on to becoming an entrepreneur.

For the last couple of years Russell has been building Ventis Media. They are among the many hidden in plain site Canadian companies achieving great things without a lot of local awareness. He is one of the many Zero-Knowledge alumni who have gone on to found their own companies.

Russell’s and his team are the developers of MediaMonkey. MediaMonkey is the 2nd most popular MP3 music manager with 1.8 million downloads on Download.com.

CNet gives MediaMonkey a 5 star rating and here is what their editors say about the software.

Despite a glut of free player/encoders, it’s tough to find one that meets our expectations. Formerly known as Sound DB, MediaMonkey has excellent library-management tools that keep the largest digital music collections well organized. Stir that up with integrated CD and DVD burning, a stellar interface, a full-featured encoder, and the ability to sync with portable audio devices such as the iPod, and you have a pretty compelling product.

and…

Considering the overall polish of this application, you’ll be hard-pressed to find anything you don’t like.

So first all congratulations on the success of your MediaMonkey product, why don’t you tell me a bit about the project?

MediaMonkey is a music organizer for serious music collectors who are looking for an organizer that gives them more control than other players out there. It’s a labour of love, having grown out of a hobby project by my partner and my belief several years ago that we could do better than RealPlayer and Windows Media Player.

You are based in Montreal, can you tell me about your team and where they are based?

We’re a completely virtual company to the extent that I’ve never met anyone else in the company face to face. Other full-time team members are in Serbia, the Czech Republic, and we have consultants in France, Italy, Portugal, etc. To bridge the distance we use a variety of intranet applications, instant messaging, and skype–we could not exist without the internet.

How have your funded your business, and do you have any thoughts on early stage technology in Canada – was it easy for you to get your project going? Any advice for small teams looking to finance software projects out of Canada based on your experience?

MediaMonkey was self-funded. For the first year of the project only 2 people worked on it (slaved on it would be more accurate), gradually growing to the 6 full time members that we have today. In retrospect, it might have been wiser to seek funding early on, however, the advantage is that we were and are fully in control of our destiny. I’ve seen friends seek funding, only to lose interest in their businesses since with funding comes VCs who have certain expectations about how the business should be run. Funding is a double-edged sword: it can open new possibilities, but it can also bring a certain amount of baggage depending on where the funding comes from.

Competing against iTunes and Windows Media Player seems crazy to most, but Media Monkey seems to have developed a strong following, how do you deal with competing against entrenched players like Microsoft & Apple.

Apple and Microsoft have to build their products to support the needs of the average user, but very often, this means not including some functionality that is critical for more serious collectors. The key for us has been to focus on a specific niche of customers that want more than is available via iTunes or Windows Media Player and tailoring MM to meet their needs.

A big part of this has been involving our customers in the development process. Although MM isn’t open source, we have a very open development process that has encouraged the development of a large community of users and contributors. Users submit critiques and feature ideas which form the basis of future product versions.

The product is also engineered to facilitate user contributions. It has open APIs that encourage users to contribute new functionality on top of the platform, open specs for skinning and translation, and a forum within which users can exchange their ideas.

To illustrate, MM is available in 13 languages almost all of which have been contributed by our community. Our community is part of what makes MM viable in the face of such large competitors, and also what makes it so enjoyable.

What is exciting for you as part of being an entrepreneur?

Doing what I want when I want, and reaping the rewards and facing the consequences. It’s a lot of work, though: I can come up for lunch and play with my infant daughter, but I’m also often at my computer at 10pm and take my PC with me when I’m on vacation.

What is next for Media Monkey and Ventis Media?

Until now, most of our revenue has been upgrade-driven. Moving forward, we hope to capitalize on our user base by becoming a platform through which users can purchase music online.

A few of our former co-workers at Zero-Knowledge have gone on to start their own companies like yourself, any words of wisdom for entrepreneurs thinking of making the jump from working for the man, to being the man?

The time I spent working in other companies was invaluable–it’s given me so many learning experiences. But when you start feeling that you could do it better, it may be time to make that jump. Just choose something you enjoy–having an idea, ability, knowledge and connections isn’t enough–you need drive and passion to get through the hurdles that you’ll invariably face.

I’m not sure how we went from me being man, to me asking the man about leaving working for me (as the man) to become the man himself - but these are crazy times. Kind of makes it hard to figure out who to stick it to when you want to stick it to the man.

On Wed 21 Feb 2007. [3] Comments

When I began to explore Canada’s social media scene in earnest last year, one of the first people I met was In Over Your Head podcaster Julien Smith. As many of my conversations are about using social media and online communities to improve the world we quickly connected and became friends. We have recently gotten involved in some a local volunteer project together (Thanks to our friend Hugh). His post regarding the local technology community needing to network together kick started a flurry of activity earning him the role of community instigator. (Patrick has a good take on the discussions here)

Julien is a podcaster, blogger, and entrepreneur. His podcast was among the first in Canada, and his blog was recently named among the 10 best art/entertainment blogs in the country.

Julien recently had his first manifesto, Keeping it Real published at Change This last week. (One of my favorite sites)

Always a busy guy, Julien has recently kick started a great social media project the Listen to your Kids podcast. Kids of all ages are invited to call toll free to 1 (866) 808-1212 where they can leave messages and speak freely to the adults of the world who wish to understand children better. Parents and other children are able to listen to the comments as part of the podcast.

You are one of Canada’s oldest podcaster’s and have created quite a brand for yourself. Tell me a bit about how you came from blogger to podcaster to Digital Radio Star.

I consider myself lucky to have had the opportunity to start very early with podcasting, being one of the earliest people in the world to experiment with it. During that time, I had just begun to listen to hip hop music very seriously, couldn’t shut up about it, and decided I wanted to take advantage by shooting my mouth off about whatever subject came to mind. I hated blogging then- I just had one because my friend Dave offered it to me.

I was very influenced by the podcasts of the time, which were mostly soliloquy type podcasts of people’s thoughts. Adam Curry, Dawn and Drew, and the Evil Genius Chronicles come to mind. It took me a while to develop my own style though- for a few months I was just talking back on my podcast to stuff they had said, which was a popular thing to do at the time.

I loved doing it, but for me, the real success came when I started to develop relationships with people. It became pretty evident that people could easily relate to what I did, and I developed a lot of connections on the web with podcasters, one of which was CC Chapman, host of the Reality Bitchslap podcast at the time– he now hosts one of the most popular music podcasts of all time, Accident Hash. He got me my gig at Podshow, who have helped kept me fed this whole time.

Frankly, I suspect my ‘brand’ was built on the idea of making mistakes. I never held back from being myself, no matter the consequences or the repercussions to the way people saw me. I suspect that being that much of an iconoclast has really helped people remember me as a ’someone’ or whatever.

You kicked up bit of a local Montreal discussion with your post about the lack of Montreal’s brains – how has the response been.

I think I really struck a chord with that post. People couldn’t stop writing about it and commenting. I think people are very ready to start talking about this- afterwards, about 30 people showed up at an entrepreneur’s breakfast that Ben Yoskovitz set up.

I remember last year when Hugh McGuire was doing this thing with some local social media type people- Michael Lenczner, Brett Gaylor and others were meeting and trading video and audio about what they called an Open Movement. We ended up going our own ways, but I remember thinking: “Something could happen here.” With the post you’re refering to, I was trying to bring back the same idea- smart people trading thoughts on a subject. I hope it comes back! I want to hear from more people about the state of the city; I find it fascinating.

Tell me about your new project, Listen to your Kids. What was the inspiration?

Listen To Your Kids came from the feeling of freedom I developed by letting go of basically everything on my podcast, just setting it free. I wanted to give that to kids who have a problem with communicating with their parents or whoever’s in their life.

When I started talking about it at the Podcast Expo last September, everyone I talked to was like, “that’s genius,” and swore to subscribe. It blew my mind that no one had done it yet because it was just connecting technologies together.

How has the response been?

Frankly, I think people only get a few really great ideas. For me, I think this is one of them- there’s a real need here, and I’ve got a great, unique solution to it. That’s proven by the fact that I can basically tell anyone about the idea, and a large portion of people love it and subscribe. The idea is highly sticky- everyone’s wondering what’s on the minds of young people.

That said, I’m currently experimenting with different ways to get kids involved and calling. I want to get a variety of people, different ages, etc. and that has proven challenging. I work on it a little every day, because I know that once I hit the right combination it’s all going to fall into place.

What kind of change are you hoping to create with your project?

a permanent improvement in the lives of those that decide to get involved. i think it’s self evident how that will happen, but in case i need to explain it- communication helps people- especially when you aren’t given the opportunity to talk back and/or interrupt.

What are your hopes for the local Montreal tech scene?

I want people who think of my city to not only think ’sex’, but also to wish they were a part of it because there’s so much shit going down. I really feel that we’re getting closer to that, and I’m really happy about it.

We also happen to be on the same advisory board for the Atwater Digital Library project. Can you talk about your goals in being involved with this project?

My personal aim with the project is simple: Getting involved with kids, to me, is a way of giving back. I used to teach chess to kids, and really enjoyed communicating with younger people. I hang out with people older than me normally (I’m 27 now, and a good portion of my friends are people in their 30s). I don’t ever want to be one of those people that is stuck in an older, dead generation. With the world changing faster than ever, there’s no value to being an antique.

In terms of what is given to the kids involved, I see people being able to free themselves from geographical boundaries and working on the web being the best advantage. I really hope we can give kids that.

The Atwater Digital Library Project is looking for support in raising funds and obtaining equipment and software for this summers program. If you are part of the local technology community or just interested in helping kids and community groups learn how to use social media tools then please consider donating (it’s tax deductible).

In my opinion, Julien is succeeding in the social media space because he understands the economics of abundance. He practices his own gift economy by sharing links, content, and building a personal brand of his experiences.

I told Julien that my response to his original post about Montreal’s technology community would be to show him just how many great projects are occuring in this city (and in Canada since I’m not limiting myself to Montreal projects).  I think it’s poetic that I start this series of Canada Tech Scene postings with his interview

On Fri 16 Feb 2007. [4] Comments

I’ve met some great people through my blog. There is a incredible amount of innovative projects coming out of Canada right now in social media, communities and Web 2.0. (There are also very interesting Web 1.9 and Web 2.1.x projects occuring as well :).

When I first spoke with Tom Williams last year, I knew that we were going to get along just fine. Our shared interest in the power of plenty and online communities led to a great discussion. His project GiveMeaning is a great community giving project, and I recently asked him to participate in an interview. Please check out Givemeaning and if you happen to donate to a project, consider sponsoring some wishes with your donation receipt at Gifter.org.

What can you tell us about GiveMeaning?

GiveMeaning is the place where people come to make wishes come true. People use GiveMeaning to fundraise and donate to specific charitable projects (i.e. a tangible, specific objective). Anyone can start their own project or they can donate to any of the hundreds that other people have started. So anyone with a desire to see their world changed (whether in their backyard or half-way around the world) can use our site to make it happen.

There are a lot of ways to donate to causes and charities online, how is GiveMeaning different?

First, we charge absolutely nothing for our service. 100% of every donation (even the credit card costs) are remitted to charity (socially responsible companies pay to sponsor the projects on our site).

Second, our privacy policy is as simple as we dont and we won’t. Too often, people experience the frustration of being bombarded with more solicitations soon after making a donation online or offline to charity. No where else can you donate with total confidence that your information won’t be shared and you won’t be solicited.

Third, you can actually see where and how your money is making a difference. The only requirement we have of the charities that receive money to work on the projects on our site is that they post blog updates, photos, video and so. A good example of this is http://ugandayouth.givemeaning.com

How is GiveMeaning doing so far?

Wonderfully! We have spent next to nothing in marketing, growing totally by word of mouth. I think unfortunately, donating to charity has become such a hassle that when people come across a customer experience like ours, they want to rave about it.

Can you give some examples of the types of projects that have been supported through GiveMeaning?

They really run the gamut from development projects in Africa to animal shelters in Saskatchewan to a woman’s breast cancer treatment in Seattle. Take a look at http://babz.givemeaning.com Our community raised $60,000 for this woman’s medical treatment in 2 weeks!!!

What are some of the opportunities that potential sponsors of Gifter.org wishes can donate towards through GiveMeaning?

It’s only limited to the sponsor’s imagination.

Any thoughts on the role of small individual donors in the world of philanthropy & charity? Where can they get involved in the best ways?

Yes, harness the “power of plenty” by pooling your individual donation with 100 other people’s small donations. That’s what GiveMeaning is all about. If for some reason, you don’t want to donate through a service like GiveMeaning, then my advice would be find an organization that you haven’t ever heard of that’s supporting the cause most important to you. There are 80,000 charities in this country and most of them are operating with very little resources. Don’t do the easy thing and give to the big, national branded charities that spend millions of dollars on marketing. Do your research, and connect with one of the thousands of “little guys.”

On a personal note, how has your experience in the non-profit world been treating you? How does it compare with your background as a technology entrepreneur?

It’s very humbling to make the switch into the non-profit sector because it requires a wholly different attitude and approach to basically every aspect of running an organization. There is a LOT of skepticism about any new charitable organization and it takes a lot more to build trust, credibility and loyalty than in any other sector I have ever worked in.

At the same time, the rewards are beyond anything I had ever previously experienced.. Despite years of building, investing and advising tech companies from start-up to Fortune 500, nothing was more satisfying than the first $50 donation that came through the site.

I also think that there is much greater value in bootstrapping a charitable “venture” than in raising a ton of $$ early on. This isn’t a market that can be “bought” only earned and with a war-chest, I think I would have fallen to the belief that I could buy my progress.

On Tue 16 Jan 2007. [4] Comments

I’ve had a few conversations resulting in a few interviews that have appeared in the last couple of weeks. Here is a quick round up of the coverage.

Eric Jackson, who has a great blog on leadership, was one of the first people to ask me to answer some questions when he heard I had left Radialpoint. I recently took the time to answer his questions about working with family, Zero-Knowledge Systems early success with the media and starting companies in Montreal. You can read the interview here. Eric is also one of the bloggers helping us spread the word about Gifter.org and the Million Dollar Blog Post, check out his post about the project here. Thanks Eric.

Mark Evans who wrote about Gifter.org for his Maple Leaf 2.0 blog followed up with a few questions. You can read our follow up conversation where I answer questions about high tech innovation in Canada, Project Ojibwe, and the Gifter series of experiments (along with my typo’s - note to self: proofread) in this follow up post. Thanks Mark.

Cassandra Szklarski from Canadian Press read about David Crow’s sponsorship of the Gifter Project (thanks David) and contacted me to write an article. It appeared in the Globe and Mail on Boxing Day, as well as across Canada in other newspapers. Thanks Cassandra.

I also sat down a couple of weeks ago with Roberto Rocha who writes the Technology column for the Montreal Gazette. We spoke about a number of topics, and he included some of our discussion in this article about the health of Montreal technology community. The article mentions my friend and Barcamp organizer Fred Ngo who is working on a new startup that I’m involved with. (Who also has posted the funniest sponsorship of the Gifter.org wishes project so far - Thanks Fred.)

A couple quick clarfications to the article, where I’m quoted,

“The problem is that in Canada, the government is competing with VCs,” Hill said, citing the Business Development Bank of Canada, the Caisse de depot et placement du Quebec and Investissement Quebec.

This stems from a discussion we had regarding the need for a strong national strategy for early stage technology and venture capital industries. The mention of the BDC comes from our discussion of a great series of posts from Canadian VC Mark Skapinker where he does a great job making the case for a more focused Canadian strategy for supporting venture capital. Mark has done a series of posts on the differences between what he has experienced in Israel and Canada with regards to government support of venture programs. They are worth a read.

The Caisse de depot et placement du Quebec and Investissement Quebec was mistakenly included in this reference. They shouldn’t have been since I believe they are doing a great job supporting early stage venture financing by acting as a fund of funds. The Caisse has invested in a number of the early stage venture capital firms in Canada. This is similar to the role that CALpers plays in Silicon Valley and the team at the Caisse deserves a lot of credit their support of early stage venture capital firms in Canada.

Also the following quote wasn’t clear in it’s meaning,

“This confuses the situation for entrepreneurs. Tech execs don’t go to angels here. Lawyers do.”

The point I was trying to make is that our technology executives aren’t becoming angels often enough. Too often I’ve seen lawyers, accountants and other high net worth individuals playing the role of angels for technology startups in Canada. I don’t see a comparable level of investment activity from technology entrepreneurs that I’ve seen in other areas such as Boston, or the Valley. Entrepreneurs should be able to easily network and reach technology executives who are experienced at early stage angel investing. This is slowly changing, but the early stage angel ecosystem and how it works with VCs and entrepreneurs is still broken in Canada.

My minor clarifications notwithstanding, the article makes a great point about the underlooked potential in the Montreal technology community. Roberto has written about some other Montreal technology community events and I think he’s doing a great thing by showcasing local stories instead of just reprinting what I can read on any newswire or technology industry blog. Thanks Roberto.

Mathew Ingram also posted something about Gifter.org. He mentions another cool project in social giving, which comes the team at Cambrian House, the Robin Hood Fund. I met the team from Cambrian House at Web 2.0 and they are a cool team, and the Robin Hood fund is a great community project.

There are lot’s of other people writing about Gifter, we are tracking some of their posts at the Gifter.org blog.

On Thu 28 Dec 2006. [2] Comments

Despite the long post about community production and crowdsourcing resulting from my lunch with Kempton, it was in fact a small part of a pretty wide ranging conversation.

Kempton even got me to open up a bit about some of the ideas we are playing with surrounding Project Ojibwe.

You can read Kempton’s write up of our lunch here. We had a wide ranging conversation about many interesting topics including our shared interest in Richard Feynman who has always been a hero of mine.

I didn’t go into the details about Project Ojibwe but we spoke about some of the goals & inspiration for the project. While I doubt the “Saving the World Wikipedia style” tagline will stick around - it’s a cute reference to the ideas we spoke about.

Alex Eberts and I started to discuss a couple of years ago about the power of online communities to achieve things collectively that single groups of individuals could not. (Wikipedia is great example of this)

Inspired by some events surrounding the TED conference that I attend and some conversations Alex had at the Sundance Film Festival with some social entrepreneurs we started to discuss ways to help people form communities and work together to make the work (oops) world a better place.

Project Ojibwe is one idea on how to do accomplish this.

On Tue 5 Dec 2006. 1 Comment

One of the great presentations at Montreal Barcamp was from Jonathan Karpfen who recounted a great story about auditioning for his job at Airborne Entertainement with Andy Nulman. Jonathan spoke about how he sent fake Fedex packages with funny video’s as well as having his friends sent letters to Andy promoting Jonathan as a great candidate for the job.

My friend Andy Nulman, knows something about auditioning talent. He spent 15 years as the CEO of the Just for Laughs Festival, is the author of two books (including a collection of great behind the scenes stories from the comedy industry “I Almost Killed George Burns“) and the co-founder of Montreal based Airborne Entertainement. Airborne is one of Canada’s fastest growing technology companies. I had the pleasure of working with a lot of the Airborne team during my time as an Internet executive at Total.Net and I know what kind of a great team he and Garner have created there.

Andy also maintains a great blog on the value of surprise.

I decided to sit down with Andy to discuss hiring great talent and finding team members who have personality & passion.

I’ve heard some unique stories about your interviewing process – can you tell me a bit about your approach?

My approach is simple—coming to me for a job is indeed like auditioning for a role in a play; it’s just that this play can be the world’s longest, lasting for years…sort of like Agatha Christie’s The Mousetrap in England. Just like the theatrical setting, you will be playing a specific role at Airborne, interacting with others, sometimes starring, sometimes supporting. I can usually tell within 30 seconds if the person is right for the company; the rest of the interview is being polite. If they’re right for the company, they will find their place, even if they’re not right for the specific job they may be interviewing for.

You write on your blog about creativity, surprise and humor – how do you go about identifying these traits in the people you work with?

It’s somewhat intuitive; I watch how they react to Airborne’s setting and spirit, how they react to my office, how they react to me. I also dispose of the usual interviewing technique and watch how they react to an unconventional setting. I also check up on them a lot before they even get here. Google has been a Godsend, but these days, two quick phone calls and you can track down a fairly intimate friend of just about anyone.

Do some candidates react badly to being asked to show off their creativity prior to working for you?

Sure, but how else am I going to gauge it? From a resume? From a CV? From something they may have done five years ago that took them six months to do? To be able to react rapidly to an obtuse challenge is a skill all digital talent need these days. All I’m asking is that they show me that instead of some standard, boring document. Or if they have a standard document, at least make sure it’s not boring. I once had a woman who was appalled—totally aghast—that I would even dare ask her to do something as simple as “Go home and send me something that shows you truly want to work here.” She said “Like what?” I replied “I don’t know. It’s up to you.” She said with a sneer “You mean, you want me to work for nothing?” It took a ton of discipline for me not to say “Well, that would be at least twice as much as what you’re worth.”

How do people find the idea of auditioning for a job? – Given your background in the entertainment industry do you think there are similarities between auditioning talent for a gala event and hiring someone to join your company?

There are similarities, some of which I outlined above. But the thing about Just For Laughs is that after a night, after a week, these people were out of your lives. At Airborne, it’s more like a marriage—till death do us part…namely until you want to kill me or I want to kill you. It’s much tougher to project your employees into the future. I always say, though, “Give me the heart and the head will follow.” I hire on future, not on past. In showbiz, in many cases, your past carries much more weight. Talent is talent, whether on the stage or in the boardroom. In fact, I learned that from Tom Peters; employees are not “workers,” they’re corporate talent.

What advice do you have for anyone looking to find a job where they can show their passion?

First off, show your passion. If it turns off the place you’re applying to, well, it ain’t going to get any better if you do get the job. Again, it’s like a marriage—go in wildly and with lust. Don’t go looking for love in a graveyard.

What advice do you have for entrepreneurs trying to only hire passionate & creative people?

Open yourself up to them. You don’t have to be HoHo The Clown and wacky; you just have to let these special people know that their particular quirks will be tolerated and they will be allowed to bloom. This is where the world’s worst bait-and-switch crimes are committed; “Oh yeah, we’re open and creative” and two weeks later you find yourself in Abu Graib. No offense to the ordinary folks out there, but creative people are different, and must be treated that way. But the reward…ahh, the reward. Well worth it. For both parties.

Airborne is currently hiring - so if you have passion and are looking to join a great team - check them out.

On a personal note, this summer when hiring for my new startup I was surprised at how difficult it was to cut through the noise of job boards, resumes and job databases to find passionate and capable team members.

When we asked Sebastien to join our team it was after a number of afternoons in the office where he auditioned with the team and we did a few practice rounds to see how he would fit in. We couldn’t be happier with the results.

So if your next employer asks you to audition for your job - will you be ready?

Update: Check out Andy’s follow up posting with a hilarious story of another candidates audition.

On Wed 22 Nov 2006. [5] Comments